First post here. I'm a Citroen DS fan (I have two). This is a revolutionary car but unfortunately never got the revolutionary engine it deserved. Citroen having looked into rotary engines I would like to fit a Mazda rotary in a DS. To stay revolutionary, but also because thye Variomatic came out more or less at the same time as the DS, I thought this would be a nice combo. After all, Holland being the second country of the DS, it would be only justice to adopt a revolutionary transmission coming from there.
For the ones not familiar with the DS, the engine is positioned behind the front wheels, and the transmission is a transaxle in front of the engine, the car being front wheel drive.
My idea is to put the short mazda rotary engine in front of the front wheels and mate it with a Variomatic. The primary pulleys would be in the back, and the secondary pulleys would be in the middle, connected to the drive shafts in between the engine and the primary pulleys, a bit like in this image:
In this regard, I'm wondering where this system is from, as I see the driveshafts directly on the pulleys, without the reducers?
Here are more questions:
What is the end ratio of a variomatic, with and without the reducers?
What is the max power that a variomatic system can hold? A Mazda 13b rotary is around 100 hp at 6000 rpm.
Among the various models, which one would be the most adapted to my application?
I live in Washington DC. Any idea where I could get a complete system, like on this picture?
Thanks for the replies. I've been looking into the 66 system. The problem which I forgot to mention earlier is that the DS has inboard disc brakes in the front, and there is not enough space to fit them on the 66 system. The set-up I posted in the first picture would be ideal as I could fit the discs on the side of the pulleys and make a bracket for the calliper which would connect with whatever holds the pulley on the other side. Any idea what that system in the first picture is ?
Your ideas sound very intriguing and bold. Two of our members had successfully used a 66 Variomatic mated with a Datsun years ago but I think your project would go way beyond that.
There is no end ratio for a Variomatic...it all lies in the end HP of the motor. That is what is so great about the Variomatic...the ratios are unlimited.
Without a shadow of a doubt you would need to secure a DAF 66 or Volvo 340 Variomatic since these have a much larger capacity to handle horsepower (anything else would blow itself apart).
The big question in my mind...is there enough space to safely pass a driveshaft between the secondary pullies, since at full speed they are much wider. Thinking an offset angle mounting for the Secondaries (or Primary) would help. In other words, one unit much lower to get you the space needed for the Driveshaft. My other though is this... The DAF/ Renault 1400cc @ 70hp was the largest motor recommended for the Variomatic...will the 100hp Mazda 13b be too much ?? ??
Bottom line is that a DAF 66/340 Variomatic is a must...nothing else would be safe to attempt.
The system in your first photo appears to be from a DAF Military 4x4 Pony which was produced in the early 1960's.
Last Edit: Mar 17, 2013 19:30:27 GMT -5 by THE BEAR
DCA-DIRECTOR (2005-Present) DAF Museum-USA Director A WOMBLE too
Post by dafcoupe66 on Mar 17, 2013 15:29:59 GMT -5
The first picture is definitely not a 4x4 army pony, the secondary disk is from a 66. a 340 transmission can handle 90 to 100 horsepower. Indeed, the Citroen has the rotors against the transmission, an extra problem there. The Datson in Huntington Beach has rear wheel drive, the Citroen has front-wheel drive In the USA is experimented with a 1979 Plymouth Horizon with 1 belt variomatic, Renault also was working on that A 1 belt vario can not handle the 100 hp The Horizon and the Renault are frontwheel drive, which the engine side ways that is simpler than a front wheel drive car with the engine in line just as the Citroen It will be extremely difficult to make this project to a succes. Incidentally, a Citroen Wankel engine was in a Ami. as a pilot project.
Last Edit: Mar 17, 2013 15:44:03 GMT -5 by dafcoupe66
you would need to secure a DAF 66 or Volvo 340 Variomatic
Forget the DAF one, a late V300 one would be better.
a) A Variomatic from a later V300 would need to be shipped from Europe. b) A Variomatic is rather bulky. c) A Variomatic assembly from a 66/V300 will weigh approx 175lbs. d) A Variomatic primary and secondary have certain weights and spring rates tailored to a particular car combo. e) on top of all that, a centrifugal clutch is also required.
Bear in mind, a three piece centrifugal clutch set is about $400 before shipping and a pair of belts are in the $200-250 ball park.
Incidentally, a Citroen Wankel engine was in a Ami. as a pilot project.
The M35? Also there was the Comotor Wankel engine fitted into the production car, the GS Birotor.
A Mazda 13b + Variomatic + Citroen GS = the perfect ingredients of an unfinished project.
My suggestion is to sell the DS - don't butcher it. Buy a DAF or a Volvo 300 if you want some CVT action. If you want some Wankel action, then get a NSU Ro80. If you need a magic carpet ride, then splash out on a Citroen GS Birotor.
Last Edit: Mar 17, 2013 17:10:52 GMT -5 by macplaxton